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| gugaplex |
 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Gasoline Prices |
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Investing Manager
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
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I suggest to everyone that they become very conscious of their energy consumption. If we all try to conserve energy we can considerably lower the prices we pay for it.
I am very happy that energy prices have been so high because the alternative sources have finally been focused upon by governments and BIG business.
In a way, the energy spike has created more (long-term) good than one would expect. |
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| BallJacker |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
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It's just a reality check for US consumers. While we bicker about $3 a gallon gas prices, the rest of the populated world, pay almost twice as much for gasoline. Plus China's rate of consumption is not going down anytime in the near future.
The only way to save gas is to buy a HyBrid or an Electric or Bio-Diesel vehicle. |
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| Vester |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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I think as prices rise...
-Someone might order a movie on pay-per-view instead of driving to the video store.
-Maybe those guys with the black SUV's don't autostart them with the air conditioning on full blast but leave the windows cracked a bit.
-Instead of driving downtown maybe some are taking the train.
-Maybe someone bought an electric lawnmower because of gas prices.
It all adds up. I for one don't own any XOM and don't want them breaking anymore profit records any time soon. |
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| gugaplex |
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 580
This Month: 1
Location: USA
15130.80 e$
Net worth: 110,780.30
Portfolio Value: 95,649.50
Monthly Return: -20.98%
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Churn Rate: 0.00%Items
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| Both VERY good points! The beauty of Free Markets is that consumers can and will adjust to higher prices in a particular good or service. |
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| jwelch999 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Investing Associate
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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Vester & Balljacker have it right... We can whine about high prices, the "evil" energy companies, etc.... But the consumer (you, me and every other Joe on the street) are the cause... Everyone has 2 or more cars in the driveway and never (unless you live in the Northeast or Chicago) take subway or buses... We "the US populus" built this dependency via our own actions... Europe and the rest of the world are looking at us saying "get a grip... You use more than any other country in the world, have lower prices than most places, and are whining about it"...
When we (the voters) park our SUVs, force our governments to make mass transit more available, and give up just a hint of the freedom that comes with driving everywhere, then things will change...
The other option, which may come to pass... Is technology in the energy sector catching up.... Plenty of supply exists, but technology does not exist to get at all of it... The world said that "Big Oil" would never be able to drill offshore in deep water, now they do... Hated as they may be, there are smart people at these companies working to get more out of the ground.. With profits as they are now, someone will find a new way..... I just hope to invest in the one that figures it out (traditional, alternative or otherwise)...
J |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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Just a small point I feel compelled to make having spent alot of time reading through financial statements and annual reports for companies like Exxon and Chevron for another thread - there will be a significant amount of oil production capacity being brought online in the coming months. Two major platforms (Sakhalin-1 and Thunder Horse) both have production capacity of 250,000 barrels of oil per day, which together amounts to an increase of 5.8% in global supply, but more importantly a 25% increase in supply cushion.
ExxonMobil owns the Sakhalin platform, which is offshore in Siberia. They also have a 25% ownership in Thunder Horse, which is in the Gulf of Mexico. BP is the primary owner of that platform, which suffered great damage due to Hurricane Katrina and is only now near being fixed up.
Does this mean things will get better at the pump? Probably not significantly, but every bit can help. |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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As most of the regulars here know, I am not a fan big oil.  However, until we can change the fuel of our military to alternates, we will be fighting to "protect our interests" The political leaders will continue to bow down before the oil and military industrial companies.
One option is to RE-ELECT NO ONE. Think about it, after a few elections the addiction will be weakened enough to make some changes to the system.
Like eliminating special interest groups, lobbists, and implimating election reforms. We are being lied to about what is really happening as far as energy and why we put our sons, daughters in harms way fighting for these lies.
 Ok, I'm done, hope they aren't listening to me! |
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| MrT |
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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Sure, there are probably evil people in the oil industry, just like every other industry, but just because they have so much power doesn't mean that they are inherently evil. They are just like any other industry, and they are just trying to make money for themselves and their shareholders (yes, that is us). When oil prices were really low a ferw years ago, it didn't make sense for them to invest in the equipment to drill more oil because they would have to sell it at a loss. As it was, they were losing lots of money for a few years because the supply was too high.
Well, now demand has surpassed supply, and you better believe that these so-called evil companies are drilling in all sorts of places that were hard to get for before because they think they can sell the oil at $3 and make a profit. Of course, for most of them, this won't happen because the market will soon be flooded again and the prices will drop. They won't drop as far as before, but it'll happen. The real question is, how do I make a profit from this? I think the companies out there that sell equipment to oil wells and refineries have probably been doing well, and will continue to do so. Anyone know of any? |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Without a doubt there are evil people everywhere. Just remember when you vote, think about the politician you are going to re-elect. What have they done to improve this countries future? Why should we be burdened with the high cost of our huge military costs? Look at the money the defense industry makes, do you think that they want peace? The more we involve ourselves in other countries business the more they make. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have gone after the terrorist in afganistan. But the politicians sold us a hugh crock of sh!t in Iraq and who's paying for it! The taxpayers and soldiers,our sons and daughters. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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I'm pretty sure we've gone over this before, but the executives of major oil companies really aren't to blame for the cost of gas. Oil prices get set in the futures markets, which, if you subscribe to conventional economic theory, is the most efficient and democratic way to do things. Refiners have very slim profit margins compared to most other corporations/industries you do business with, and actual gas stations have razor thin margins of only a percentage or two. A large part of the cost of gas is taxes... much much more than any profit made by the oil refiners and distributors, and when you think about it, that IS unfair.
I'm not a paid schill for Big Oil and now it costs me $40-50 per week in gas whereas it cost me $25 a year and a half ago... but when I look at what is happening with the oil/gas situation I see normal market forces at work in a healthy way.
Voting solely based on your out-of-pocket expenses for gas is a stupid idea, because there are deferred costs our country is liable for which make $3.50 gasoline laughable. Take the Medicare/Medicaid programs, where the total bill could come to more than our total national wealth... then add on the Social Security mess and you see why $75 oil, although the more pressing problem, isn't really that big of a deal on the comparative scale. |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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Re-elect no one is all about many different things not just gasoline prices as INWB mentioned. It does not matter what the price of gasoline or oil is, it's about spilling our blood for something that we have alternates for. Now I personally don't want myself or any one I know to go risk their life so I can drive a car powered by oil or anything other energy for that matter. Not even any of you young folks on this site. Sorry but money made at that cost isn't worth it to me. Just my opinion though. I'm all for free enterprize just don't want blood on the money I earn. Look at the terrible cost of lives we as a nation have paid for in the name of profit to a corporation. You all are intelligent enough to know what I mean. Just start with the civil war....  |
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| jmweb |
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Associate
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| Vester wrote: | | -Maybe those guys with the black SUV's don't autostart them with the air conditioning on full blast but leave the windows cracked a bit. |
Being one of those guys this statement is iffy.
By lowering your windows your actually using more gas then using the air conditioner as it creates more pull. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| jmweb wrote: | | Vester wrote: | | -Maybe those guys with the black SUV's don't autostart them with the air conditioning on full blast but leave the windows cracked a bit. |
Being one of those guys this statement is iffy.
By lowering your windows your actually using more gas then using the air conditioner as it creates more pull. |
Vester - I think what alot of people don't understand is that while $3 gas may be a problem for some people, there are people on the other end of the demand curve with much higher incomes who really don't give a damn how much a fill up costs because the extra $20 a week spent on gas doesn't really hurt them. I live in a fairly wealthy area, and the popular car for guys is either a Mercedes S500 or SL500, and most of the moms shuttle their kids around in ML430s or BMW X5s. Whichever way you cut it, you are burning through a gallon of premium every 12-15 miles, but when you can buy a $75,000 car it doesn't phase you as much... this is why I think the high end retailers are safe plays while everyone runs from Walmart.
I do think we are rapidly approaching the tipping point where new industry needs to be designed to run on something other than oil. Our consumption habits leave a dismal chance that we will cut back on spending due to oil prices - can you say "charge it"? I really hope to see manufacturing plants operating off renewable power sources soon, but I still think oil needs to go much higher before the real pain sets in and we start to see some of the demand shrink. Around $90 per barrel seems like a good target for reckoning day.
Sidenote: does anyone know how much of U.S. oil consumption is due to driving? I've always wondered that. |
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| e_pang |
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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| Excellent point! But, what is the most frustrating when we all talk about these gas prices. Is still we have to keep a global mind, and that fact of the matter is. We are still not paying that much compared to globally. I know in Europe the price is so much higher. Though, they instead of complain about it, they try to live with it and turn to other resource and ways...what an idea! |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Other developed countries where gasoline is more expensive also have excellent public transportation systems. The infrastructure is in place for other means of transportation such as bicycles. People walk more because they live in much closer conditions and not spread out like we are here. When the middle class(working poor) gets tired of seeing the upper class living high off the hog while they bust their a$$es to survive...that will be the day of reckoning! |
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