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| MrInvestor |
 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
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It is possible they had the stock yesterday. I think they were talking about it.
It could very well be legit. |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Administrator
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| Grimreaper wrote: | looks like the only solution is going to be real time quotes, and that's an expensive solution that really isn't necessary here since this whole thang is supposed to be all in good fun! right?  |
Oh yeah...real time would be REAL expensive.
The delay is a problem...
Stock changes Price in realtime:
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Put order in on eInvesting Simulator (15-20 minutes before realtime)
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A solution would be:
If we put a 15 - 20 minute delay on all trades:
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Couple that with a Cue for orders made when the markets are closed and we might really need those MIT guys. They can leave their drinks at home though. |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Administrator
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It's always something though isn't it?
It's getting better all the time though! |
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| MrInvestor |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
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Do stocks go up 10% or more in less than 20 minutes like that very often?
It seems to make much of a gain you'd have to do tons of little trades and keep switching back and forth a lot.
I'm sure the admins would see that. |
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| chahsiubow |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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I was watching MSNBC market watch this morning at 10am or so and after watching the interview with the CEO of BIDU and watched the stock for half an hour, I jumped on the bandwagon. I only wish I done it with real money. My 4,633.96 purchase netted me a 3,453.68 profit.  |
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| Grimreaper |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Mr. EIA, I wouldn't do any more tweakin, just leave things as they are, it'll get even better when limit orders are made an option though, but you are correct, the new system is a 1000% improvement over the old, time will smooth out the results of these little one day wonders. |
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| Trading Simulator |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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| blackfoxtrade wrote: | looks like the system is still calculating the average % return of the portfolio.  makes me mad. you will soon find out yourself when you make enough trades. when will it be fixed? |
Please read this topic for details, and provide your input as requested. Thanks. |
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| Trading Simulator |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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| Grimreaper wrote: | | looks like the only solution is going to be real time quotes, and that's an expensive solution that really isn't necessary here since this whole thang is supposed to be all in good fun! right? |
There are plenty of real-time quote sites out there. The issue is that they don't support remote server calls like we're using to talk to Yahoo to get the delayed quotes we're using now. If anyone knows of a site with free real-time quotes that can be queried remotely let me know.
Otherwise our solution is going to be to put all trades on a 20 minute delay, just like the quotes. At least that way you'll be trading and viewing the same data. Another solution that we talked about and discarded was placing a minimum holding period of, say, 2 days. That way you couldn't really hope to profit off of the 20 minute delay, but it also means that you can't simulate day-trading, which some folks may want to do prior to trying strategies with real money. |
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| Grimreaper |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:09 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| 20 minute delay? how would that work? why not just keep things the way they are? better yet, why not just go to limit buys/sells and not worry about the delay? let's say somebody wanted to buy BIDU yesterday at 80.00 knowing that it was trading at 80.00 real time while the simulator still showed it at 93.00, simply set a limit buy at 80.00 and wait 20 minutes for the simulator to catch up to real time instead of putting in a market order when the simulator finally caught up like it is right now, I don't know why you would want to initiate yet another system when the solution is so simple, with limit orders you could set multiple buy/sell orders at the same time, that way if you are holding several positions you wouldn't miss the opportunity to take maximum profits on a stock that runs on some sort of news for instance, your limit sell is there to catch the move, it would also be beneficial to the members who aren't constantly monitoring the markets throughout the day, and putting restrictions that you must hold a position for a certain amount of time is a terrible idea, you eliminated the biggest problem already simply by not allowing people to use the after hours news to cheat, even if you kept things exactly as they are right now I seriously doubt that those who plan on gaming the system will do well over time, even if they plan on playing the intraday swings on fast moving stocks, just my opinion of course |
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| Trading Simulator |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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| Grimreaper wrote: | | 20 minute delay? how would that work? why not just keep things the way they are? better yet, why not just go to limit buys/sells and not worry about the delay? |
All orders will go into a queue. The order will not be processed until it is 20 minutes old. What's so hard about that?
| Quote: | | I don't know why you would want to initiate yet another system when the solution is so simple, |
You write it then. 
| Quote: | | with limit orders you could set multiple buy/sell orders at the same time, that way if you are holding several positions you wouldn't miss the opportunity to take maximum profits on a stock that runs on some sort of news for instance, your limit sell is there to catch the move, it would also be beneficial to the members who aren't constantly monitoring the markets throughout the day, and |
Limit orders are planned to be a part of the system. By putting a 20 minute timer on all market orders we can ensure that orders are taking place using the quotes that we have available. This will eliminate the advantage that real-time quotes have over our delayed quotes; even if you know what's happening, your order will have to wait in the queue for 20 minutes before it can be executed.
Limit orders are going to be much more challenging to write. Based on your comments, I doubt you've considered the implications of how such a system would be implemented. Forget the 20 minute delay issue for a moment, and let's assume that we have real-time quotes. How do you implement limit orders?
There has to be some sort of process that monitors open orders, and keeps track of the stock price moves. Suppose I have a limit order for XYZ at $10. The last trade was $9.50. The next trade was $10.05. It never traded at $10, or at least it wasn't reported via the Yahoo quote server. So did the limit order fill? Sure, I think it will in our game scenario. How often do we check? Yahoo's quotes are updated every 15 seconds. Our host would scream if we sent Yahoo queries out from our server every 15 seconds; besides, if there is a large enough batch of quotes to retrieve it can take longer than 15 seconds anyway. So the next attempt would be starting before the first attempt is done. For that reason I plan to start the update frequency out at 1 minute. Now suppose that XYZ traded at $9.99, and then again at $9.99. In that minute it may very well have traded at $10 (or higher) but our game system won't execute the trade. The odds of that happening are probably slim, but it's a compromise still. The idea behind limit orders is that you can log in and set a trigger price for your order; that is going to be very nice. As you observed, some people can't come to the site during the day and make trades, so the ability to place limit orders will be welcomed by all.
Just don't think that's it is a simple and immediate solution.
| Quote: | | putting restrictions that you must hold a position for a certain amount of time is a terrible idea |
I already said it's not going to be used. It was considered and dropped.
| Quote: | | even if you kept things exactly as they are right now I seriously doubt that those who plan on gaming the system will do well over time, even if they plan on playing the intraday swings on fast moving stocks, |
All it takes is to find one stock under $10 that moves $0.25 in 20 minutes. Make five trades with $1000 on $0.25 moves for stocks around $5 and you've made 20% in one day. Find a stock trading for $2.50 that moves to $2.62 and you've done the same. I can make five trades and turn $1000 into $1200 simply by playing the delay. And most financial sites show the "fast movers" either by $ change or % change, so you don't even have to go looking very far to find them. By placing all orders on a delayed basis we will eliminate that issue, and make the trading simulator more useful for people that are actually trying out investing strategies. |
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| Grimreaper |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Well TS, I'd be happy to set it up for ya but as of right now it's nah my yob but now dat you splained da new 20 minute delay I think I like it! that should definitely eliminate all of the cheaters, in essence we will now be trading in real time, if I am understanding you correctly, and forgive me if I'm still messed up because I truly am a moron, when BIDU was trading at 79.50 real time on Fri and the simulator was showing 93.50, I would have gotten 93.50 when I entered the trade, but 20 minutes later the simulator would have adjusted the price to 79.50, and that's the entry I would get here, is that correct? if it is I believe you have solved the problem, when do da new festivities go into effect? |
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| Trading Simulator |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Investing Sr. Associate
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| Grimreaper wrote: | | but now dat you splained da new 20 minute delay I think I like it! that should definitely eliminate all of the cheaters, in essence we will now be trading in real time, |
In "real time" but 20 minutes delayed. So our quotes and trades are all operating on the same clock, so to speak.
| Quote: | | when BIDU was trading at 79.50 real time on Fri and the simulator was showing 93.50, I would have gotten 93.50 when I entered the trade, but 20 minutes later the simulator would have adjusted the price to 79.50, and that's the entry I would get here, is that correct? |
Let's look at two examlpes. If you placed a market order, meaning no limit on the order price, then you would get the trade 20 minutes later at 79.50. If you placed a limit order to "buy" at $93.50, then 20 minutes later the simulator would detect that the current market price is way under your limit price, and you would get the current market price for your "buy". That's the way it works in real life, at least with my broker, if I place a "buy" limit order for higher than the current market price my order is adjusted to a market order. It wouldn't make sense for my to pay my "limit" when it's available cheaper.
Now suppose you're trying to sell. If the real-time quote is $93.50 and you place a sell limit order for $93.50, once the 20 minute delay is over your order pops out onto the queue. Until the price rises back to (or above) your limit price, your sale will not take place. Suppose you place a sell limit for $78. Once the 20 minute delay is over, and the stock has dropped from $93.50 to $79.50 your sell limit becomes a market order, again because you're offering for sale at under market conditions.
If your sell limit order was for $80, then you're stuck with the stock (currently at $79.50) until the price trades through your limit once again.
Limit orders will be GTC or Day Orders. A Day order will expire at the end of the day if it's unfilled during normal market trading hours. For us here at eInvesting.com the market hours will be 10:20 to 5:20 eastern time as far as the actual order processing, but you will only be able to actually enter orders from 10 - 5. The extra 20 minutes allows for the delay to run its full course. A "GTC" is a "good 'till cancelled" order and it will stay in the system for up to 90 days. These ideas are based on actual trading systems from online brokers that I have used.
Other trading techniques include "fill or kill" and various other order types that depend on trading volume. We will not get that sophisticated here.
| Quote: | | when do da new festivities go into effect? |
When they're done.  |
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