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| Dave Rathbun |
 Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| frusnak wrote: |  horse power needed increases as the weight (both vehicular and foot) increases thus increasing gasoline needed to move said vehicle. E=MC2  |
You mean force = mass * accelleration, I think.  In order to accellerate a larger mass requires a larger force.
That's why there's such a huge push to build lighter and lighter cars when you're talking about "supercars", sportscars, or even hybrids. There are extreme high-end cards that are made from titanium and carbon fiber because of the weight. Reduce the weight, and you need less force to gain accelleration. Cram a bigger engine in the car, and you get phenomonal accelleration due to the lack of weight.
Put a Viper engine in a Viper and it flat-out goes. Put a Viper engine in a truck (they'll do that for you, if you want) and it still goes, but at a lower accelleration because of the larger mass.
Nobody wants to see a titanitum / carbon fiber truck.  |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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Hmmmmm... titanium/carbon fiber transportation powered by helium No wait...neutron solar fuel cell acceleration particle scrabbler, beam me up scotty  |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| All I know is gas is back over $2 a gallon in NJ. I remember when gas was under a $1 a gallon. |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:56 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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Heck at my first job,which was a gas station, I remember pumping gasoline for $0.23 a gallon. Wow there were no color televisions either. not even atari  |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:20 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| I thought carbon fiber cars are actually really good, because of the incredible power/weight ratio they provide. I know you only find it in extremely expensive cars right now, but why wouldn't it be good in a truck? |
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| poornewb |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
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| Im Not Warren Buffett wrote: | | I thought carbon fiber cars are actually really good, because of the incredible power/weight ratio they provide. I know you only find it in extremely expensive cars right now, but why wouldn't it be good in a truck? |
I think you just answered your own question there. Found in Extemely expensive cars.
I wouldnt say that Higher horespower cars use more gass, My wifes RX330 gets about 23 on the hgwy with a V-6 probably around 200 horsepower, Look up what a New Vette will get on the highway, or a new Chrysler 300 with the hemi. Anything with a turbo will get high numbers while upping the fuel mileage except for a tractor or such. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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I am differentiating what is "good" from what is "practical" or "cost-effective". I understand that a carbon fiber body frame is expensive, as you find them only in high-performance cars which easily cost upwards of $100,000. I think that carbon fiber is generally better than aluminum/steel/pick-your-metal-composite, and as costs for it come down (as they always do) isn't there a chance that more and more cars are eventually built with it? My confusion here is that the statement appears to imply that carbon fiber isn't suitable for specific uses.
As for the horsepower-gas relationship, its not perfect but is generally correct. The larger the engine, the more horsepower, the more gas used. Lets look at examples, remembering that actual mileage will be lower than stated...
Honda Civic Coupe - 1.8 Liter Inline 4, 140 horsepower, 30/38 city/highway mpg
Lexus RX 330 - 3.3 Liter V6, 223 horsepower, 18/24 mpg
Lexus LS 430 - 4.3 Liter V8, 278 horsepower, 18/25 mpg
BMW M3 - 3.25 Liter Inline 6, 333 horsepower, 16/23 mpg
BMW X5 4.8is - 4.8 Liter V-8, 355 horsepower, 16/21 mpg
BMW 760Li - 6 Liter V-12, 438 horsepower, 15/22 mpg
Mercedes SL 65 AMG - 6 Liter V-12, 604 horsepower, 12/19 mpg |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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He is a link to the EPA for gas mileage estimates
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
I believe the problems with carbon fiber is the manufacturing process has not been automated and do not know if it can be with current technology. |
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| Dave Rathbun |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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Expense is the main reason. Trucks have a lot of "skin". Plus, doesn't carbon fiber crack, rather than dent? Most people use trucks for work, and having pieces crack and fall apart doesn't do much. Besides, most folks don't buy trucks for mileage.
My 'vette gets (or can get) over 30 MPG on the freeway. That's with a 5.7L V8 with 350HP.  |
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| poornewb |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Investing Manager
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Yeah a 05 vette has more horse power than all of those cars Except for the two V12's and will get some good numbers ecspecialy with the standard,
You have to think about gearing in alot of these cars, You know the soccer mom in the ford Excursion doesnt know that its built on a 3/4 ton truck chasis and will never be a gas miser.
Now for the V-12 and V-10 buyers there just asking for a membership in the gas club.
Put the new LS7 6L in that civic coupe and I bet you'd pull about the same mpg.
Oh and buy the way gas is 2.12 here in bid D |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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The stats I found for the new Corvette are as follows:
400–HP LS2 6.0L V8 Engine (Manual) gets 18 mpg City/28 mpg Highway. Take away 1 mpg for Automatic.
505 hp LS7 V8 Engine (Manual) get 16 mpg City/26 mpg Highway.
After looking into this, I also think that the price of a Corvette on Einvesting should be raised from e$ 21,000 because the base price is almost USD $45,000.
And German cars are still better. |
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| Dave Rathbun |
| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Im Not Warren Buffett wrote: | The stats I found for the new Corvette are as follows:
400–HP LS2 6.0L V8 Engine (Manual) gets 18 mpg City/28 mpg Highway. Take away 1 mpg for Automatic.
505 hp LS7 V8 Engine (Manual) get 16 mpg City/26 mpg Highway. |
I didn't say I had a "new" 'vette, I have a 2001. I've added some aftermarket parts that improve airflow which improves both horsepower and mileage... assuming that I drive appropriately. And I have averaged over 30 on long highway trips, as long as I stay off the accellerator.
| Quote: | | After looking into this, I also think that the price of a Corvette on Einvesting should be raised from e$ 21,000 because the base price is almost USD $45,000. |
I agree.  But I've bought mine already.  The 2005 Z-06 Corvette is over $60K.
| Quote: | | And German cars are still better. |
Show me any German car in the same performance category and price-point as the Corvette and we'll talk. |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| For the price the Corvette can not be matched. |
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| frusnak |
| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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I work on german and american equipment. It is my opinion that german products are:
1. Over engineered (complicated)
2. Expensive to own (repair and parts costs)
3. basically show no advantage to own over american made products
Chrysler should be, if not already, demonstrating these characteristics since mercedes has taken them over. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| Dave Rathbun wrote: | I didn't say I had a "new" 'vette, I have a 2001. I've added some aftermarket parts that improve airflow which improves both horsepower and mileage... assuming that I drive appropriately. And I have averaged over 30 on long highway trips, as long as I stay off the accellerator.
Show me any German car in the same performance category and price-point as the Corvette and we'll talk. |
I didn't have any info about year or modifications, so I just figured I'd share what I could pull up from the latest model.
My point with German cars being better is that they are, I think if you're talking about the best cars, American models can't touch them. But because you insisted on comparisons...
BMW M3 does 0-60 in 4.8 sec, 333 hp 3.2 Liter Inline 6, $48900
Mercedes C55 AMG does 0-60 in 4.9 sec, 362 hp 5.5 Liter V-8, $55,225
Mercedes SLK 55 AMG does 0-60 in 4.9 sec, 355 hp 5.5 Liter V-8, $62275
Porsche 911 Carrera does 0-60 in 4.8 sec, 325 hp 3.6 Liter Horiz. 6, $71300
Note that the first two are both 4-5 person sedans, not two-seat sportscars. I think that makes it slightly more impressive. The Porsche also has a backseat. |
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