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| geb9696 |
 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: I have a question about the Portfolio Return % |
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Investing VP
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I might just be crazy but I am somewhat confused by the Portfolio Return %. My return was around 2.8% two days ago. I have since bought only one stock that went up yet my return for December is now 1.44%. I looked at my trades for december and I can not figure out why it is so low. Is it because everytime I post the account grows causing the number to go down. I might just be crazy but here is my trade history.
GOOG 95 402.49 Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:26 pm 404.19 Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:59 pm 38,256.55 38,398.05 141.50 0.37%
GPIC 1,389 11.71 Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:12 pm 12.00 Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:07 pm 16,285.19 16,668.00 382.81 2.35%
MLEA 33 84.60 Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:50 pm 84.90 Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:59 pm 2,811.80 2,801.70 -10.10 -0.36%
MLEA 141 82.26 Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:59 pm 84.90 Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:59 pm 11,618.66 11,970.90 352.24 3.03% |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: |
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CFO
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| It couldn't have anything to do with the e$10,000 bonus you stole from me did it? I think there is a highly detailed chart showing how percentages are calculated, if I find it I'll let you know, although I'm sure Ben knows where it is. |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Administrator
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The amount of e$ you make or spend or give away doesn't affect your %. This is only changed by what you put into stocks.
Lets take a look at the History.
GOOG 95 402.49 Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:26 pm 404.19 Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:59 pm 38,256.55 38,398.05 141.50 0.37%
GPIC 1,389 11.71 Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:12 pm 12.00 Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:07 pm 16,285.19 16,668.00 382.81 2.35%
These are the only ones that matter being that they occured this month. Do you have anything actively in your portfolio? That can change your overall number too.
Lets break this down a litte more:
Amount Invested in GooG: 38,256.55 Amount made from Goog: 38,398.05
Amount invested in GPIC: 16,285.19 Amount made from GPIC: 16,668.00
Lets total it up.
Total amount invested: 54,541.74
Total Amount Made: 55,066.05
Total Profit: 524.31
Then figure commissions (Small e$ here for these big trades).
Total profit divided by the amount you invested gives you your overall percentage. About 1% in this case.
Anyway, point is you made a lot more %-wise from GPIC but you had a lot more capital in GOOG which didn't go up as much bringing your overall % down a little bit.
Thanks for the opportunity to show the calculation in a real Simulator situation! |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| The adding of money does effect the % then. I invested my the total amount of e$ I had in gpic at the time. That went up over 2%. All I had in the account at the time was 16,285. After posting more and receiving more e$ I now had a total of 38,256.55 in my account. This went up only .37%. I understand that the average of the two should be around 1%. The problem is that both times I invested all of the money I had. If I had 10,000 invested in gpicand it went up 2.35% Then the total in my account would have been 10,235. Then I invest in google and it increases .37% I would have 10272.87. This means I should be up around 2.66%. The money added to the accounts through posting when reinvested messes up the % gained in the month. Also mlea doesnt count for december even though it was sold then? |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I missed mlea.
That would have been snap-shot at it's value at the beginning of the month and count towards what you invested.
You can make all the e$ in the forums you want but they don't count till you put them in the market.
Yes, it's true.
If you have 1000 e$ in the market and you are up 50% with 1500 and then you buy another stock for 1500 e% that stays even you'll only show a gain of 500 against investing 2500 overall for a 25% gain.
The way we are setup is that all the money you have invested is calculated against all the money you've made to show the monthly percentage. |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| I thougth I was crazy for a second. I understand how you are doing it now. This is why all the people with the highest % gains dont have any posts. |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Yeah. Thats why they don't win anything. 
You can just trade one stock, don't touch it or add anymore e$ and hold out that it goes up...but what fun is that?
It is realistic this way though.
If you put a thousand in the market out of your cash account and made 25% on it and then put 10,000 in there you wouldn't have made 25% on what you invested anymore.
At some point perhaps we could have prizes for best individual trades. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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| I think this situation could be made into an argument for a requiring a minimum number of stock purchases to win. |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| Benjamin wrote: | Sorry, I missed mlea.
That would have been snap-shot at it's value at the beginning of the month and count towards what you invested.
You can make all the e$ in the forums you want but they don't count till you put them in the market.
Yes, it's true.
If you have 1000 e$ in the market and you are up 50% with 1500 and then you buy another stock for 1500 e% that stays even you'll only show a gain of 500 against investing 2500 overall for a 25% gain.
The way we are setup is that all the money you have invested is calculated against all the money you've made to show the monthly percentage. |
I have a question again about the % return. In this month I have made money on every single trade so far. My return says 1.51% which would be a gain of 1175.77 so far for this month. The only problem is that I have made 2114.71 for the month. I am wondering where the 1.51% return is coming from? Is it the average return I am getting per stock? I am confused and any help would be appreciated. |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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When you added up what the stocks cost you did you add the 28,500.32 from the history? I see you added the income there for the 2114.71.
That might be the difference.
The only thing that is averaged is that it's everything you put into the market / what you made from the market. |
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| geb9696 |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Investing VP
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| That 28000 was then used to invest in GS. If it is counting that as part of my portfolio the simulator is then counting me as having 106366.09 in my portfolio? That still doesnt give me the result but when I add in the 43197 from gpic I get the result of 1.51%. This means that the program is taking my returns and puting them as if my total portfolio is 149563.09. Is there a way to change it to I get my percentage gain to the actual amount the I invested which is 72,000? If there is no way to do this whenever you trade a stock and then reinvest it will dilude your returns by saying your portfolio is the new investment bigger. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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Here you go again, whining about your return. I've noticed that mine never quite seems to add up right, but I've never been as neurotic as you looking into such things. 
Are your holdings (and hence gains/losses) all from this month? I am carrying a slight loss on some stocks from the last month, and this shows me as having made less than I really have this month. I understand the "snapshot" resets the change value to zero for the calculations; is this what is throwing you off?
Also, I was wondering what would happen if I withdrew most of what I have invested. Would my return increase because I made a couple % on 150,000 e$ but would only have a little invested, or does the game use the highest amount you had at any point during the month? |
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| Benjamin |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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It's not saying your portfolio is 149563.09, but what you invested is.
Say you invest 50,000, make $1 and sell, and then invest $50,000 and lose a dollar then sell how much have you invested? $50,000? Not really, you've invested 100,000 in two transactions.
Now, we could make it so you have a set amount of money at the beginning of the month and then however much you have as the month progresses it would be easy to figure your % gain. BUT we have e$ made for posting, games and other ways to lose and make e$ so it won't work that way. Plus if you want to add e$ to your portfolio you should be able to at any time.
So thats how it works, at least for now. Whenever you add money to your portfolio from your e$ that money counts towards your overall portfolio %. There may be another way without losing a lot of the site usability to do this, but so far, believe me, this is really the best way to do it. |
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| Im Not Warren Buffett |
| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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CFO
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Ok now I am mad confused...
Lets say I have 100,000 in 5 stocks - 20,000 in each. I sell one stake, and buy a different stock. Does the calculator still use 100,000 to find my return, or does it use 120,000?
I am troubled deeply by this. |
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